tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post5646285162435877336..comments2023-08-06T05:13:26.415-04:00Comments on Von Trapper Keeper: The Erosion of Hope - shame on you, Obama.Dan Nolanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-83599016776660280502008-07-22T20:50:00.000-04:002008-07-22T20:50:00.000-04:00Vision Quest at # 1? You're a wild man, KB.For a ...Vision Quest at # 1? You're a wild man, KB.<BR/><BR/>For a more exhaustive discussion on the matter from the citizens of VTKountry, see <A HREF="http://vontrapperkeeper.blogspot.com/2007/08/top-ten-high-school-movies-of-all-time.html" REL="nofollow">the original post</A>.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-49431069137555253742008-07-22T17:16:00.000-04:002008-07-22T17:16:00.000-04:00Finally, something on which I can comment with som...Finally, something on which I can comment with some authority:<BR/><BR/>10. Heathers<BR/>9. Sixteen Candles<BR/>8. To Sir With Love<BR/>7. Better Off Dead<BR/>6. Risky Business<BR/>5. Just One of the Guys<BR/>4. Fast Times at Ridgemont High<BR/>3. Hoosiers<BR/>2. Dazed and Confused<BR/>1. Vision Quest<BR/><BR/>-Kevin B.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15712771895325003977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-4352215678907111202008-07-21T23:06:00.000-04:002008-07-21T23:06:00.000-04:00I agree - still impressive. As far as my thinking...I agree - still impressive. As far as my thinking the place is a shithole, I pretty much do. But I also say that a lot because I feel like people (especially over here on the left) have a tendency to romanticize the place, something you might be doing. I know I did before I went there. To clarify your paraphrase of me: I wouldn't say "better" to be poor in Cuba than Haiti/DR/Guat/etc; I'd say that they see it as a lateral move and not worth the hassle/cultural/familial upheaval.<BR/><BR/>As to your next "Dewy24 (and Dan)" comment, I think you're exaggerating the situation. You're in the right ballpark and make some good points, but it's hyperbole to say that "dissent is never heard" and "folks don't engage in dissent". That's just not true. There is a real difference between dissent in this country and in other countries. Not to pimp my own experience (like I did with the Cuban example), but one small example that sticks out in my mind was the <A HREF="http://enoughfear.org/en/boston" REL="nofollow">enoughfear.org political action</A>, in which we Americans were broadcasting our actions to everyone in the Boston Commons including the police and the Iranians involved (there and here) did not feel comfortable giving their last names. There are many examples of our government not tolerating dissent (and that's an understatement), but to extrapolate from that into equating the situation here to authoritarian regimes is an exaggeration of the situation. You can respond with multiple examples but they would still be X number of examples out of Y total possible persecutions - as opposed to the Y out of Y that happens in some parts of the world. Doesn't excuse the X's.<BR/><BR/>"cops lie 99.9999% of the time" - more hyperbole.<BR/><BR/>like I said, pure conspiracy theory on the Lisbon Treaty until I research further.<BR/><BR/>As far as the Breakfast Club statement goes, I'll repeat my reply from that thread: "I think you may be looking too critically at it. It's not a piece of pure realism. The characters are hyperbolic for effect. How can you not like John Bender's character? He's iconic."Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-63512685023505423372008-07-21T21:27:00.000-04:002008-07-21T21:27:00.000-04:00No doubt that all of Cuba's organic agrarian refor...No doubt that all of Cuba's organic agrarian reforms were done out of necessity, and not politics and not even environmental stewardship. But still impressive and still resulted in a much improved food situation compared to the bleakest years post-USSR. I know you have a strong opinion of the place as a shithole and that you had a bad experience there, and I've never been there, but again, all I'm saying is that by almost every objective metric Cuba is better off than its similar neighbors, and your cousin's comment that folks there might prefer to live in the US but not in other Latin American countries confirms that (and is in line with my experience working with Cuban asylum seekers in the US). <BR/><BR/>Like I said, I'd take Castro over any other dictator (or, to paraphrase you, better to be poor in Cuba than be poor in Haiti, DR, Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, etc...). Kind of a stupid comment, obviously, because I'll never have to make that choice, but it gives me an excuse to talk about how the most important contribution of Cuba when all is said and done is their <A HREF="http://globalpublicmedia.com/articles/657" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">applied permaculture</A> thing they've got going on. We'll need that knowledge soon and hopefully we won't have blown them to smithereens first.<BR/><BR/>Dewy24 (and Dan): If the system is absolutely corrupted and controlled by a power elite, and dissent is never heard, to the extent it's even tolerated (remember the freedom cages at the Dem convention in Boston?), and folks don't engage in dissent regardless because they're too stuffed with consumerist/corporatist crap and ignorant of any (or almost all) oppositional voices, what's the real difference? And what about the persecution by our government of Sami <A HREF="http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080721/cockburn" REL="nofollow" TITLE="">Al-Amin</A>? I think there is plenty of fear in this country and plenty of good reason to have fear.<BR/><BR/>As for that bullshit story in the NYTimes about us being alone in using the exclusionary rule, if any of us ever needed proof that that paper is the voice of the system, and nothing more, this is it. <BR/><BR/>I think most people would agree with the exclusionary rule: if the police break the law and as a result discover some evidence, then the evidence can't be used against the victim of the police's illegal behavior. It's a judge-made rule that is designed to implement the 4th Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizures (it's a remedy to a violation) and has generally had a positive impact in forcing good police work. Unfortunately, it's just a judge-made rule and has since been almost completely destroyed by exceptions, exemptions, work-arounds, and subsequent interpretations. The crim defense lawyers I know make a big deal whenever an exclusionary rule motion is granted by a judge--it hardly ever happens.<BR/><BR/>I think the exclusionary rule is a great example of a "right" that exists just to assuage us into thinking that we're freer than we are. Ever try to exercise your rights when getting shaken down by a cop? It doesn't work (speaking of which, happy belated Bastille Day, all). As it is, we're right in line with the rest of the world: the cops lie 99.9999% of the time and the evidence gets in. For that .0001% of the time where the cop is too stupid (or ethical? no, forget that) to lie, there's an exception, exemption, etc... that the judge can use to still allow the evidence to get in.<BR/><BR/>And so the NYTimes has the guts to run a joke of an article about how the US is all alone--Canada doesn't even have it!, with hardly any context about the history of police oppression in this country, especially to minorities, unions, political dissidents, etc..., and with hardly any talk about how the rule doesn't even really exist here, anyway (yes, there really is a "good faith" exception to the rule). The story should be "What's left of the exclusionary rule slated for execution by S. Ct."; that would be more accurate.<BR/><BR/>Dan, Ireland conspiracy: interesting stuff, but it seems so hard to believe. I can see how the EU military might be against the US's military interests, but wouldn't the EU be better for international capital? I can't imagine the money in this country being behind scuttling the deal, although maybe I'm not giving the military folks enough credit for how much power they wield in Washington. I always thought that Iraq and even Afghanistan were more about making money than they were about securing US power. On the other hand, it's hard to believe anything that important goes down without the illuminati controlling it somehow.<BR/><BR/>Random tangent: I want to amend my top-ten high school movie list and take Breakfast Club off. I first left it off, remembering it as a sucky and inaccurate portrayal of each stereotype, but then added it on after reading a bunch of posts and stuff. I saw it this weekend and it is just as sucky as I remembered it. It had ok acting but terrible writing, that did almost nothing for me then or now.akboognishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12552719022086863177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-75063462065533973802008-07-21T18:27:00.000-04:002008-07-21T18:27:00.000-04:00d24's links: Wiretapping, European-Style It actua...d24's links:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.slate.com/id/2136147/" REL="nofollow"> Wiretapping, European-Style</A> It actually doesn't surprise at all that Great Britain (Remember Giuseppe Conlin!!) and Italy (always an AC Milan victory away from reverting to total fascism) spy on their own. The Netherlands is a bit surprising. I would have figured they were too hopped up on space cake to care.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19exclude.htm" REL="nofollow">U.S. Is Alone in Rejecting All Evidence if Police Err</A> Canada sucks so we should too? (interesting (less conspiratorial, more likely true) theory from my other cousin (Canadian) that I picked up over the weekend - there are many within the Canadian government who are supportive of the conservative movement within the US and of the Bush Administration and a potential McBush Administration. he says that it's likely that they lied about the Obama campaign person supposedly assuring them behind closed doors that all the anti-NAFTA rhetoric was just campaign politics (i.e. they were just trying to politically undermine Obama).)<BR/><BR/>Also of interest: 4 more comments and we break the record set by the "Top 10 Pyrrhic Victories of All Time" post for most commented on post.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-20772001600811743162008-07-21T18:08:00.000-04:002008-07-21T18:08:00.000-04:00I'm back after a weekend of pant splitting fun (th...I'm back after a weekend of pant splitting fun (those of you who know my brother, ask him what I mean by that).<BR/><BR/>akb - regarding your comments about the farming revolution in Cuba, I had an opportunity to talk to my (very progressive) cousin who lived there (legally) for a couple years and is married to a Cuban. He agrees that they have done some pretty impressive things with local farming and self-sufficiency, though he points out that this was out of necessity rather than ideology. All the cows died. He also pointed out that while it is primarily organic, the farmers use pesticides when/where they can get their hands on them to increase their income from the crops. it's about survival, not politics. He also agreed that while many Cubans would jump at the opportunity to come to the US and take a shot at the imperialist dream, they really have not interest in going to Guatemala or Mexico or other regional countries (certainly not DR or Haiti) that would not provide them any more substantial poverty relief than staying in Cuba. Again, on a personal, non-governmental level, I think these issues are dictated by practicality, not politics. I've been there. It's no paradise. I'd more closely classify it as a "shithole". Though some parts of the country are obviously beautiful. The people are poor and the fear of the government is deeply ingrained. Maybe that's because there are soldiers with machine guns standing on street corners.<BR/><BR/>[side note - he also tipped me to a popular conspiracy theory regarding the Irish referendum that took down the Lisbon Treaty (he lives in Dublin these days). Apparently, part of the Treaty had to do with establishing an EU military force that would be something of an updated NATO (excluding the US, including EU countries previously behind the Iron Curtain). Some of the individuals who were associated with the grassroots efforts to vote to reject the Treaty on the referendum in Ireland reportedly had high level security clearance within the US Dept of Defense. The theory is that they were encouraging the Irish people to vote the Treaty down to prevent the establishment of an EU military organization and to promote continued US military hegemony. Don't know how much truth is involved in this conspiracy theory, but it's interesting enough to check around on the internet. Unfortunately, Obama won't let me email my cousin in privacy, so I can't get the rest of the story from him.]<BR/><BR/>lc - are you trying to steer this thread into your wheelhouse? Be forewarned, VTKids, she's an Ivy League Chinese Foreign Policy buff. I agree with you though: a world without free meandering in the comment section of VTK is not a world I want to be a part of. (paraphrase?)<BR/><BR/>d24 - I also disagree that we "are just as much victims of an oppressive regime as those in authoritarian societies." But why congratulate ourselves for not being as bad as other countries (crappy Euro countries or Burma). It used to be a point of pride in this country that we could be such a global superpower and an economic success (I know I just opened a can of worms there) <B>while</B> holding ourselves and our government up to impressive levels of civil liberties. We were a strong country even without spying on our own, whereas much of the rest of the world felt the need to do that. And those who didn't were following our lead. It is what liberals love(d) about this country. What we held up high while the conservatives were holding up their lapel flag pins. It is why this vote by someone who purported to be different, to be speaking truth to power, was a slap in the face.<BR/><BR/>(to fix your hyperlinking problems, check out one of your posts on your blog that has a link. go to edit the post and copy/paste the whole html of the link to somewhere. then just replace the url and the words that you want hyperlinked when you want to link something here.)Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-84831392189189582752008-07-21T16:44:00.000-04:002008-07-21T16:44:00.000-04:00total failure on the links.total failure on the links.Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-66658091768075743072008-07-21T16:43:00.000-04:002008-07-21T16:43:00.000-04:00I agree that the U.S. should do far more to protec...I agree that the U.S. should do far more to protect civil liberties. But I don't agree that we "are just as much victims of an oppressive regime as those in authoritarian societies." I could easily name 30 countries where we would be thrown in prison for saying what we have on this post. Now I also recognize that it is pathetic that I'm saying "yeah, but we're better than Burma." But if we are comparing the U.S.with other countries, who is more free gets a little murky. For example wire tapping in many <A>HREF="http://www.slate.com/id/2136147/> European countries is far worse </A> than in the U.S. (I'll be amazed if my attempt at embedding a link works) Again that is not a defense of wire tapping, just pointing out that a lot of countries generally considered more liberal than the U.S. give their citizens fewer rights to privacy, at least when it comes to wire tapping. I recently read an article in the <A>HREF="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/19/us/19exclude.html?pagewanted=2&sq=exclusionary%20rule&st=cse&scp=1> Times</A>about the Exclusionary Rule and how most other countries are far more lenient in allowing illegally obtained evidence to trial.Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-82348453466305107252008-07-21T12:25:00.000-04:002008-07-21T12:25:00.000-04:00I'm definitely not advocating for the sacrifice of...I'm definitely not advocating for the sacrifice of any civil liberties, and these two threads in my opinion are pretty much unrelated to each other. I'll take my lumps with a free democratic society (with the very real risk that it ends up being controlled by the right wing) over "leftist" authoritarian rule.<BR/><BR/>I'm with you 100%, Ic, that principle is more important than power, which is why we also agree that Obama's vote was such an offense.<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, I don't hold up our society as any example of a principled, free critical thought environment, or a defender of civil liberties. The right is in power here because it's rigged the system, making money the driving factor and neutralizing votes. We've figured out how to allow people to perceive that they have rights and freedoms when actually they are just as much victims of an oppressive regime as those in authoritarian societies. Your comment that this thread is dangerously heading towards China is a good one, although I think it's going that way from the other direction: China is the realization of the corporatist dream, having a lot more in common with the US than with Cuba.akboognishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12552719022086863177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-2603524054415647012008-07-18T22:22:00.000-04:002008-07-18T22:22:00.000-04:00akboognish! The failure to filibuster Alito was th...akboognish! The failure to filibuster Alito was the comment thread I referred to earlier. total crap. the failure, not the post. <BR/><BR/>I'm interested in where this thread is headed and I feel like we're going to end up in China. I mean, we can sacrifice civil liberties as long as we end up with some quality of life benefits? I don't know. I like the idea of sticking with a principle even if it gives unprincipled people the right to be unprincipled. I think some of the (admittedly sexist and racist) philosophers had it right or at least more right than the politicos. Remember when ideas were involved as opposed to (ok, along with) cults of personality? If its about ideas, rather than strictly power, money, etc., then yeah we'll end up with some terrible no good regrettable failures (Bush and the democrats, frankly) but at least we will be able to choose whether or not we want to own or disown those. I think one of our greatest assets as a nation/political system is that we value critical thought.Otherwise, we're a lot more wary of posting our meanderings on blogs for fear of reprisal. And without that, there would be no VTK. <BR/><BR/>I have to agree with DN (and misquote and paraphrase) that authoritarianism's track record in cultivating critical thought is less than zero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-33978575119931467722008-07-18T10:11:00.000-04:002008-07-18T10:11:00.000-04:00Unfortunately, I'm out the door to catch a flight....Unfortunately, I'm out the door to catch a flight. I'll have to revisit this after the weekend.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-33409226856240668152008-07-18T04:06:00.000-04:002008-07-18T04:06:00.000-04:00Well, like I said, I think authoritarian and left ...Well, like I said, I think authoritarian and left are mutually exclusive. The commies are/were right wing corporatists cloaked in the rhetoric of collectivism, but the collectivism is just window dressing. The soviets had a harder time admitting that than the Chinese but that's still where they ended up.<BR/><BR/>I agree that it's funny for me to singing the praises of any dictatorship in this post. But I condemn authoritarian rule whether its left or right. I just disagreed that left wing dictatorships had a poor track record--certainly not compared to similar rightist-ruled societies.<BR/><BR/>Cuba's situation post-Soviet subsidy was very bleak for a little while, but then what that country did with its farm program (organic, super local, extremely well managed) is incredible. They hardly had any fossil fuel-derived fertilizer, which is what the rest of the world depends on to feed itself (the "green revolution" is all about nitrogen fertilizer which almost all requires oil to produce) and so they figured out how to fertilize their farms on a large enough scale using sustainable and local means that still produced enough food for their population. They've done an awesome job; maintaining pretty good minimum health welfare standards compared to any country, first world or not, but fantastic standards compared to their neighbors (Haiti? DR?). Add in their education and social welfare standards (again, kicking the ass out of their neighbors) and you've got to give them credit, dictatorship or not.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I know, the civil rights thing is a huge problem there, and there's no way I'd advocate for it or for a similar dictatorship model here. But considering that Castro is a dictator, never relinquishing power and virtually controlling the entire existence of a society, I'd say he's the best dictator in modern history. Which is only to say that every other dictator has been worse on most or all levels. If stuck with one, I'd go with Castro.<BR/><BR/>I agree that Chavez isn't a dictator yet. We'll see where he goes. I like almost all of what he's done so far, but am fearful that he wants to compete with Castro for longest-running ruler. Perhaps there's something about being the target of US imperialist rebellions / coups / assassination attempts that backs one into the role of power-hungry dictator (seemed to happen in Nicaragua, too). It's wrong, but I do tend to give the more left-leaning dictators a pass compared to the cabals who run the neighboring countries (although there are a lot fewer of those now!).<BR/><BR/>I can't even imagine authoritarian rule by the left. Maybe it would look like the Massachusetts delegation to the US Senate? I mean, Kennedy and Kerry are Senators-for-life, and I'm pretty damn happy about it at this point (and sad about Kennedy's brain cancer).<BR/><BR/>Leftist rule, on the other hand, might be possible some day. I'm not as cynical as Dewey is (or you appear to be in your last paragraph above), even though I probably hate everybody just as much as both of you do. But it will only after the Dems get out of the way and stop screwing it up.akboognishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12552719022086863177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-84169010692971162922008-07-17T21:43:00.000-04:002008-07-17T21:43:00.000-04:00I find it funny that you've gone from being outrag...I find it funny that you've gone from being outraged at Obama's vote to strip US citizens of their civil liberties to praising authoritarian dictatorships within the same comment section. You certainly have very specific understanding of what "left" is. Soviet and Chinese authoritarian governments were/are born out of communist ideals. Certainly they morphed and ended up pretty far from "socialist" ideals but at what point do you classify them as right wing and on what basis? How are you defining "right wing"? And would Castro even still be relevant if it weren't for decades of Soviet subsidies? Furthermore, I don't think you can compare Castro and Chavez's "dictatorships" at this stage. Not least of all because, Chavez is not a dictator, though he has certainly moved in that direction. <BR/><BR/>And most importantly, what do you think authoritarian rule by the "left" would look like in the US at this stage? Given the size of the country, the attitude of the populace, the status as global superpower, I think it would be a disaster.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-51825226385975242342008-07-17T19:53:00.000-04:002008-07-17T19:53:00.000-04:00The very few instances of authoritarian rule by th...The very few instances of authoritarian rule by the (truly) left actually have a great track record (never mind the fact that authoritarian and left are probably mutually exclusive). I don't consider the Soviets any more left than the Chinese communists--they are collectivist in name only, but otherwise extremely right-wing. Castro and Chavez are the closest, with Ortega in Nicaragua also in there. All three did/are doing a pretty good job with their dictatorships. You balance out the quality of life for their citizens, measured in terms of almost every metric (education, health, infant mortality, opportunity, wealth disparity, etc...) and those three countries are doing/did extremely well when compared to other countries of similar size/population/economic development etc.<BR/><BR/>The Harper's article that I mentioned above had an interesting last line by one of the panelists, where he said that if either candidate wins and starts working up an Iran war, he (the panelist) would expect and welcome an intervention from the military, in a sort of Turkish-style coup or at least a sit-down strike. Apparently the top military commanders are horrified by the thought of an Iran war.<BR/><BR/>I blame the Dems for failing to filibuster Alito's nomination. Roberts was going to be impossible to filibuster, but there was a real chance to block Alito if the opposition party had any spine. Kerry started his filibuster from Davos, which didn't help anything, but I think he did it only because he was so surprised that nobody else had done so. Either way, it highlights the problem with the Dems--they are absolutely terrible at being the oppositional party, not knowing what their power is or how they can use it.<BR/><BR/>Looks like my prediction about the Dems ushering in off-shore oil drilling might have run into a little bump, in the name of Nancy Pelosi (my congresswoman). Apparently she's pretty committed to killing the proposal. Too bad she's countering it with a "Drill more responsibly in existing leases" campaign that will do nothing for the cost of gas and further destroy the environment, maintain dependency on fossil fuels, contribute to global warming, and line the pockets of big oil. But it's admittedly not off-shore so it's something.akboognishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12552719022086863177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-34285563816109995882008-07-17T13:19:00.000-04:002008-07-17T13:19:00.000-04:00d24, is this a misprint: "If you were arguing for...d24, is this a misprint: "If you were arguing for authoritarian rule by the left, you’d probably get a lot less lip from me."<BR/><BR/>That doesn't sound like you (given our history of discussions about the career of Hugo Chavez).<BR/><BR/>Authoritarian rule by the left does not have a great track record on the planet Earth over the last 75 years or so.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-70902478555475897492008-07-17T09:55:00.000-04:002008-07-17T09:55:00.000-04:00I agree with you on the Iraq War resolution. It wa...I agree with you on the Iraq War resolution. It was the biggest failure of the Democratic party in recent memory and those who voted for it should be roundly criticized. But you are wrong when you say “overwhelmingly favoring the war authorization” 126 out of 207 Democrats in the House and 21 of the 50 Democrats in the Senate voted against it. That make as total of 147 no votes to 110 yes votes. Completely inadequate opposition it was but most Democrats did oppose it. <BR/><BR/>Just because the Dems can’t stop Guantanamo doesn’t mean they are complicit. Are the Republicans in the Massachusetts Congress complicit in the legalization of gay marriage or are they simply unable to stop it? Guantanamo was set up by the Department of Defense and the fight against it is more a legal battle than a legislative battle. The Supreme Court’s decision that Gitmo detainees are entitled to Constitutional protect was shocking or at least much more than I expected of the current court. Of course John McCain bashed and Obama praised the ruling. I guess they could raise more of a ruckus but ultimately Congress has very little power to force the closure of Gitmo other than electing a president that will close it. <BR/><BR/>Remember that the Senate was under Republican control in 2005 when Alito’s nomination was voted on. The vote in the Judiciary Committee went straight down party lines 10-8 without a single Democrat crossing lines. The vote in the full Senate went 58-42 with only 4 Democrats voting for him. John Kerry made an attempt to filibuster but he didn’t have the votes and wouldn’t have had them even if the four Democrats changed their votes to no. I really don’t understand what else you expected the Democrats to do.<BR/><BR/>You are right about the Democrats being behind the DHS but my point is that it wouldn’t have been their reaction to 9/11. Bush was ridiculously popular at the time and the country was still in shock. There was no way that was going to be stopped. I’m not necessarily opposed the idea of a DHS but more upset with the way it has been run under the Bush administration.<BR/><BR/>I’m not unsympathetic to your view that the two party system is broken but at the same time I don’t think it is going to change. And if you don’t things can get a lot worse, you haven’t been paying attention to the last eight year. I also don’t think other forms of democracy are much different. Parliamentary systems have the problems we are talking about here. So other than authoritarian rule I don’t see how you will ever get the government you want. If you were arguing for authoritarian rule by the left, you’d probably get a lot less lip from me. But short of that the unfortunate fact is that there are and always will be a lot of conservatives who fundamentally disagree with the left’s vision of what America should be. <BR/><BR/>I guess my view is pretty cynical in that I think every country gets the government it deserves and occasionally I wonder why I even care. The amount of apathy or ignorance which causes this mess isn’t going to change but I’ll take trying to make them the best we can. They say it better than I can so please refer to the last track of ‘Let it Bleed’. It is a brilliant reflection on the cycles of idealism, disillusion and pragmatism. I think he is talking about drugs most of the time but it is the same thing.<BR/><BR/>I’m still trying to understand your Damon/Jeter analogy. Does it have anything to do with a straw hat?Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-72332311846139957022008-07-16T18:58:00.000-04:002008-07-16T18:58:00.000-04:00"amon"? Is that some sort of Amos and Andy refere..."amon"? Is that some sort of Amos and Andy reference? God you Red Sox fans are racist. No wonder Papelbon's racist preggo wife felt threatened driving through a crowd of multiculturally accepting non-racist Yankees fans. She couldn't scream racial slurs and it freaked her out.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-62177995684003395902008-07-16T18:30:00.000-04:002008-07-16T18:30:00.000-04:00Dewy, you definitely don't need to argue that we'd...Dewy, you definitely don't need to argue that we'd be better off with a D than with Bush. No question. It's true on a million levels, including all the ones you mentioned.<BR/><BR/>But "better" is only just that. It doesn't mean "good," "satisfactory," "principled," "spine-ful," or "credible."<BR/><BR/>We probably wouldn't have gone into Iraq the way we did under Gore. But that doesn't absolve the Dem's for overwhelmingly favoring the war authorization and making it possible for us to go in there in the first place.<BR/><BR/>Guantanamo is a creature of Bush, but again, the Dem's have continued to fund it and have been unable (unwilling) to stop it.<BR/><BR/>DHS was as much a creation of the Dems as the Repubs. Alito is in there as much because of the Dems as the Repubs--they barely tried to stop his nomination even though they knew how bad he was. Bush might have nominated him, but the Dem's approved him.<BR/><BR/>And that's what pisses me off so much about them. They act like it's enough to say a few words in opposition--sometimes--and then cave when push comes to shove. They're so worried about offending some mythical middle that they fail to advance any agenda other than their own reelection.<BR/><BR/>So when I say that they're all the same, of course I'm not saying that they are all identical clones of each other. There are some differences, and occasionally those differences matter. But in the system we have now, with two parties, one fighting to move the country into fascism and one happy to keep it in corporate-kleptocracy land, I don't see corporate-kleptocracy land being something I want to vote for, even though it might be better than fascism.<BR/><BR/>It's like amon and Jeter. Just because Damon is better than Jeter, it doesn't mean that I want him on my team. I want Ellsbury on my team. And I'm sick of people telling me I have to want Damon just because if I don't have Damon I'm going to get stuck with Jeter. If that's the system, the system is broken and it's time to throw it out. Time to say that you're sick of the limited choices and that either the game has to change or you're going to stop playing the game.akboognishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12552719022086863177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-88266398630217592292008-07-16T15:12:00.000-04:002008-07-16T15:12:00.000-04:00Well, I'm not going to give you that as the last w...Well, I'm not going to give you that as the last word.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-63552100796574226142008-07-16T15:07:00.000-04:002008-07-16T15:07:00.000-04:00Stop mangling my metaphor! Speaking of pubs my fri...Stop mangling my metaphor! <BR/><BR/>Speaking of pubs my friend Greg called me from work last night at a bar/restaurant on Broadway and told me he was serving Bernie Williams. I begged him to say "Here's your check Noodle Arm" but he wouldn't do it. Something about losing his job. Actually I always liked Bernie and Mariano. Jeter's a pretty boy, cocky punk though.Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-19691465833868552622008-07-16T14:51:00.000-04:002008-07-16T14:51:00.000-04:00You're a basketcase. A basket of racism. You and...You're a basketcase. A basket of racism. You and Papelbon should go down to Tom English's Pub in Southie and have a pint.<BR/><BR/>A pint of blonde lager.<BR/><BR/>I'll take Sharpton, Mariano, and a nice pint of Guinness at one of the many non-racist Irish pubs in Cambridge.Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-62967039715002488752008-07-16T14:47:00.000-04:002008-07-16T14:47:00.000-04:00"Awaiting your racist Sharpton bashing ..." Dude. ..."Awaiting your racist Sharpton bashing ..." Dude. WTF. I love Rev. Al.<BR/><BR/>You might be the world's most difficult person to get the last word in on.<BR/><BR/>(deleted my last post because I mistakenly wrote "I might be the world's most difficult person to ..."Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-63794014402289628402008-07-16T14:44:00.000-04:002008-07-16T14:44:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Dewy24https://www.blogger.com/profile/10716643865474299323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-35834439061444884472008-07-16T14:22:00.000-04:002008-07-16T14:22:00.000-04:00Also, I voted for Sharpton, not Kucinich, in 04, a...Also, I voted for Sharpton, not Kucinich, in 04, and it might have been because of that flip flop. Can't remember.<BR/><BR/>Awaiting your racist Sharpton bashing ...Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18246530.post-34096819053952283682008-07-16T14:19:00.000-04:002008-07-16T14:19:00.000-04:00a hat!?!? I turned your hat upside down, reworked...a hat!?!? I turned your hat upside down, reworked it into a basket, and filled it with so many verbal beatdowns that you got classified as a basketcase!<BR/><BR/>In fact, you did say that he shouldn't be criticized. You said you "grudgingly accept[ed] Obama voting for it" and that this space would be better used attacking McCain than Obama. Don't confuse akboognish's comments and mine. I didn't say that there was no difference between how Democrats would have run the world in the last 8 years and how Republicans did, and I didn't even say that I wouldn't vote for Obama (though in MA it won't matter, so I have yet to decide). In fact, now that I review my comments, I said "I hope he wins instead of McCain". This whole post was just an attempt to be consistent, call him out on this bullshit, and give him the criticism he rightly deserves. I'm not going to endorse him on this blog for 12 months and then keep silent when he pulls some bullshit like this. The whole issue of this vote being a flip-flop is ancillary, though not irrelevant. Citing the fact that a progressive politician that I consider to be admirable once flip flopped on something too is pointless. It has no bearing on this discussion. Your point is clearly that everyone flip flops sometimes and therefore no one should ever be called on it. Fuck that. The consequences of the flip flop matter. A lot in this case. Punishment is harsher than the crime? Really? This legislation is pretty fucking criminal and his punishment is that some nobody small time assorted topics blogger from Cambridge says "shame on him". What a police state this blog has become. Call me Il Duce from now on.<BR/><BR/>I think the record is like 50 - the Top Ten High School movies post got a lot of responses.<BR/><BR/>(and for the record, a small part of me was disappointed with DK when he switched his stance on abortion, even though he was aligning himself with me. It bothered me that a man of his principles, could let The Machine change him too)Dan Nolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13981886295607717368noreply@blogger.com